Reasons you will hate me

Well it is indeed time to cry havoc and release the dogs of war...Scarily the two opponents could be siblings, both in looks, manner and aspects of policy. We just have to hope the great unwashed that is the electorate avoids the glittering bits of silver lobbed in their direction by both parties and looks at the really hard issues confronting Australia..Like if its a breach of parliamentary protocol for Peter Garret to reform Midnight Oil and play a gig in the great hall, or if nerdy glasses will become mandatory for all boys so the nation looks like our beloved leader, whoever he is!
As an aside Ms Fits, young Jon Faine was heard to say on radio that no blog is worth reading, period!! Next time you get to co-host the condescension hour it might worthwhile taking in a pile of printouts from this fine internet prattle and beat him around the head with it...

People shoudn't have to vote if they don't want to vote.

Anyway, go Liberals.

Only 12 days out? That divination is so impressive, neigh Nostradamic, that I think Ms Fits can give us all a tip for Cup day

Turns out, I've been voting illegally for the last 11 years. I've either been shunted off the roll for having too much impure thought (the most obvious cause of most of my mishaps and maladies) or because I died without realising it. Either way, I'm nowhere to be found (a big shout out to Val at the AEC).

I might as well have been drawing great big cock and balls on my ballots (like I've threatened to do in the past) for the sausage sizzle all this time...

Hey Anon "People shoudn't have to vote if they don't want to vote."

You don't have to vote. All you have to do it turn up at the polling booth. And the incorrectly names "compulsory voting" actually serves a really important function, which is that access to voting is guaranteed - polling booths have to be adequately resourced and easily accessed by voters, employers must allow employees sufficient time off to vote etc.

This safeguards the right of an enrolled person who wants to vote, to vote.

Compare that to the fiasco of US elections, where people have to travel to polling booths (usually on party-sponsored busses), queues can be hours long, if you can't get time off, you can't vote, whole demographics are excluded merely by virtue of the circumstances of their employment etc.

Having to turn up to get your name marked off, or paying a small fine, is just the cost of safeguarding this right.

Also to point out that if you do do what it says to do in that second graphic, you know, with the ticking rather than the numbering of the boxes, your vote is actually informal (except in the senate if you vote above the line, where a tick or cross is taken to indicate a first preference so long as there aren't any other marks in other boxes). You know, what with the compulsory preferential voting and stuff.

This community service announcement brought to you etc.

"Democracy is founded on one simple rule:
Get out and vote or I'll motherfucking kill you."
- South Park

the US polling day is the Tuesday following the first Monday in November, don't ask me why but it shows that comparing the aus system to the US is a bit of a waste of time.

I would have thought the majority of adult aged australian's have saturday off and the rest could do a postal vote. I don't see that as being a big deal.

I live in a safe labour seat that's only going to get safer. I don't see why I have to make the effort to put in a vote that makes absolutely no difference.

Especially since there's very little difference between the two parties. Rudd is doing everything he can to seem conservative to the electorate. On a state level even Jeff Kennett pointed out on Saturday that Brumby has taken his strategies to another level.

I agree with what Scal said... . The right to vote (hopefully without the US style hassles) is an essential right in a democracy and should be protected. Whether you want to deliberately vote informal is then up to you BUT for the life of me I can never understand the reasoning behind ... "People shouldn't have to vote if they don't want to vote."

A quote from Malcolm Turnbull's Myspace page (http://www.myspace.com/malcolmturnbull )” those Labor guyz r lyke asshgoles! Yu def dezerv 2 win btw yu r 1 gud lukin boi if i were gay id so go for u”

priceless!

WHO TOLD HIM TO HOLD A FOOTBALL??!!

Oh, the pain:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/federalelection2007news/pm-gets-video-makeover/2007/10/15/1192300652823.html

Okay.

People shouldn't have to turn up to the polling booth on election day and get their name ticked off if they don't want to.

It's a simple freedom. You don't want to care about the whole thing, you shouldn't have to.

"the US polling day is the Tuesday following the first Monday in November, don't ask me why but it shows that comparing the aus system to the US is a bit of a waste of time."

Uh, dude - that's exactly my point. Because it's compulsory here, they hold it on a Saturday (even though it then costs more in wages) because fewer people work.

The US polls are on a weekday because voting is not compulsory, so elections don't have to be held at a convenient time.

And, as I said, you don't have to vote. You can pay a fine, if you'd prefer, or you can just rock up and get your name marked off. It'll take ten minutes.

If you think voting is a waste of time because Rudd and Howard are so similar, vote for an independent. Or the Greens. Or the People's Electoral Lobby.

And, by the way, "Australians" - in the plural form - doesn't need an apostrophe.

I agree with Scal to.

Anon, whether to vote or not is not a freedom.

We don't live in some libertarian world.

There are some things we have to do, even though we may not want to, because it makes things better for Australians, as a whole. Like immunisation or paying taxes or picking up our dog's shit or registering our cars or filling out centrelink forms or turning music down at parties after 12.

wow, thanks, helping with my grammar (sorry it's a blog i didn't proof read), even telling me who I can vote for.

I guess I'm just pro-choice on just about everything, I don't expect people to always want the same things as me. If you want to vote go ahead I'm not stopping you, why are you forcing me?

gp, I don't like washing up, but it is a fact of life. We have to do things we don't want to everyday, and as far as things one doesn't want to do go, getting your name ticked off a roll once every two years (approx) is not nearly as taxing as washing dishes 3 or 4 times a day, keep it in perspective.

x

teaspoon

I know you prefer not to mention most of your other activities on this blog but this is worth making an exception for: You're a member of the Crikey commentariat, you are. And you're in some fine company.

Go and subscribe for free, readers.

https://www.crikey.com.au/Accounts/FreeTrial.aspx

And remember friends don't let friends vote Liberal...

Folks,
I have thrown the runes, examined the entrails of hapless passing amphibians and even checked out the tide charts, and indeed, November 24 is a Full Moon.
SO NOBODY whatsoever is allowed to vote Liberal because it deprives too many of us from partying our little selves into the ground all through the bloody nite because we have finally SACKED THE RAT!
And the moon will stay up all night too!
'Oh the times they are a-changin'...'
Bring it on, bring it on...

To all the "you may not like certain things but you have to do them anyway..." Firstly, I am amazed, and secondly, in the most respectful way, go fuck yourselves!

I accept the need for taxation and pay my taxes obediently. I don't much like the way they're being spent currently and although you may suggest that the ALP would do better than the encumbent, frankly I don't think so.

Until a party runs on free, universally available, merit based education, health care (including dental) and shelter and is uncompromising wrt protecting ecosystems, I will not vote. Peter Garrett, FUCK YOU ARSEHOLE! FUCKING SMARMY, SUCK ARSE BALD CUNT!

I reject the authority of any politician to intrude into my life. Taxes are "fuck off money" (at a rate of about $60k/annum in my case) and constitute the only contribution I will make to sustaining suck hole politicians in this country. I don't ask anything of a government other than competent administration of the services above, for those who need them, and perhaps a few others like roads and infrastructure.

Tell me again from whence politicians derive their authourity to intrude into our lives? Is it that they are so good at cynical manipulation and duplicity?

Don't and won't ever vote and don't ever tell me I must. (Don't pay the fine either and the government seems to have learnt, in my case at least, to not push the issue)

exasperated anon at seven forty four PM ought to ask who pays their clearly lavish (and thanks for reminding us which eschelon of the financial/social ladder you hang about in) wage? Do they so heartily subscribe to this anarchistic hatred of politicians and the society in general?

I work with politicians reguarly and yes, they're not perfect and some are total arse-wipes, but what system of government do you advocate for? presumably one, where high-income earning, peter garrett-hating folk are given a lighter touch?

I'm sure the hapless al-Mailiki Govt in Iraq would love to run a free health and education system, but they have a foreign invader (who installed them) fucking everything up on a twenty four hour basis. Do you hate those bastards, too?

Let's get out and vote!
Let's make our voices heard.
We've been given the right to choose,
between a douche and a turd.
It’s democracy in action!
Put your freedom to the test.
A big fat turd or a stupid douche,
which do you like best?

Thank you South Park. That just about sums it up for me although the senate may prove more interesting.

hey there, great post! Just wanting to do a little plug. I'm in the middle of setting up a blog to encourage youngsters to vote, and be active in their community, get out there and have their say... so if anyone has anything interesting to contribute, please let me know, and feel free to check it out and comment (still working out bugs tho!)

It's http://www.giveashitblog.blogspot.com

thanks!

@itsfuntoflirtatpiedimontes

Noone pays my wage apart from me. I sell my talents in the marketplace. Your point was...? If you are asking whether my clients or colleagues hate politicians too, I would have to say, yes, many do. As for hating society, I think that's a bit of a stretch if based on what I ranted.

But lets talk about you. Are you particularly enamoured with Australia 2007? Admittedly I am not and I blame the Howard government for much of the problem as would many of you on this blog. What upsets me is the prevailing Gen Y activism which pretty much boils down to "Howard is attrocious, we want the other guy!" That is how far Australia has devolved. Throwaway activism from the most insipid, superficial generation seen. A generation who for the last 13 years have supported the Howard government most strongly of all demographics!

Removing Howard from office is no triumph when the creepy alternative does his best to ape him and his policies anyway.

What style of government do I advocate. As little as possible. As I said, there are a few "not negotiables", ie. Education, Health, Housing & Environment. I don't know which box I fit into to be honest. Left Libertarian? Anarchist? You tell me.

Did I say I supported the invasion of Iraq?

And, err, if you think ~$150k is highly paid you really need to get a little perspective.

What a totally logical stand you've taken. Hey, free education, free health care, good public housing and environmental management from a government that doesn't 'intrude into your life'. And you'll achieve this by.. not voting.

Are there any other problems you have solutions to that you'd like to share with us throwaway activists? That is if you have time, battling away on minimum wage.

You know, as soon as I knew an election was imminent, the first thing I did was come check your guess for the date. It's fascinated me for years that you were predicting it with such confidence. Go you for being so bloody close!

Anon @21:58

It's not that hard.

The Environment: The big ticket item here is preservation of ecosystems and biodiversity. These concepts are too abstract for the mainstream so we get the less difficult more simplified "Global Warming". Global warming in as much as it may contribute the the loss of ecosystems and biodiversity is an issue but not necessarily as dire and as demonstrably bad and irreversible of itself. Certainly it is hard to argue for the continued burning of hydrocarbon fuels given both their contribution to Global Warming and their increasing scarcity and cost. Whatever your predictions for the fossil fuel situation you must concede that it's not a sustainable one. So the government's role is simple. Subsidise renewables so that they make economic sense to as many Australians as possible and subsidise nuclear power generation sufficiently to encourage the growth of an industry. As Ziggy Switowski identified, currently nuclear is not quite an attractive investment so the industry is non existent. And don't stop there. Develop a nuclear waste storage facility at a secure, geologically stable site (as Hawkey suggested) and earn income from safely storing the world's nuclear waste. Before the anti nuclear folk howl, have a look at the numbers. You either choke the planet, live like a villager in a "developing" country or a Nimbin crusty or embrace nuclear. Australia should augment its selling of Uranium with the other stages of the product lifecycle and should exceed and redefine World's Best Practise in doing so. I fear though that sadly it will take a long time for the "Average Australian" to lose the "Nuclear is bad, mmkay" mantra.

Speaking of WBP, it goes without saying that logging of pristine forests in Australia, in particular Tasmania and Victoria is outrageous but seemingly unimportant to both major parties. There is a role for government in providing retraining for workers whose industries cease to be viable. Timber workers fall into this category. I can't seem to ditch the scary image of ex timber worker Homer Simpsons right now...scary!

Tertiary Education: Should be accessible to all regardless of means as should quality education at all stages of life (vis a vis vocational retraining for redundant workers as above). So yeah, free, albeit partially subsidised by fee paying OSS and HECS that does not pose an upfront financial hurdle. We need the best and brightest regardless of background and also need a better educated populace in general.

Health: Medicare has a proven record, fund it. And fund public hospitals. Whether it is a state or federal responsibility, just fucking sort it out. Also, take to the AMA like Reith took on the MUA. Break up that Volvo driving cartel, train more doctors, some on the condition that they work in areas with chronic shortages of practitioners.

/me trails off into slumber.......

$150k isn't highly paid.
$150k isn't highly paid.
$150k isn't highly paid.....?

Nope, I just can't get that one through my head. As someone earning about one-tenth of that guy (I assume it's a guy), and a member of Gen Y who has never supported the Howard government I would, in the most disrespectful way, suggest he go fuck himself.

The regional election night planning starts here I assume? Sydney plans anyone?

ps. your friend Miranda last seen here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18229919824

Self employed? Not that I asked (or care), but shit, we should all recognise when we’re in the presence of a deity. I promise to be more humble in future.

My point was straight forward: even self-effacing geniuses like yourself participate in a society that requires regulation of various forms, some of which you’re clearly acquainted with, and political institutions and their dirty inhabitants are a necessary part of that. Voting is likewise. I see your point though, it does deprive you of about twenty minutes every three years that could be more productively spent selling one’s talents in the marketplace.

The reference to Iraq was not about the invasion, but about the universality of this idea: even in the most fucked up situations, a government of some description, suckholes may they be, is useful to solve human problems collectively.

PS the International School for the Study of the Obvious are giving away a one year scholarship to anyone who can construct a political argument using the terms “Peter Garrett”, “Logging” and “Sell out”. Even though only one of the designated terms is used, I’m told Exasperated Anon Seven Forty Four PM’s bold offering of :

Peter Garrett, FUCK YOU ARSEHOLE! FUCKING SMARMY, SUCK ARSE BALD CUNT!

is right up there. Remember to pack a nuclear-powered toothbrush, I’ll see you next semester.

Fits, my travel booking spies apologise profusely for getting the parliamentary sitting vibe wrong. They have indicated that they now owe you a drink (or two) and have generously agreed to remedy aforementioned wrong at any time your paths may cross.

BTW - loved your 'ism work on Sunday Arts, the flip book line was especially wonderful.

Anon said: Tell me again from whence politicians derive their authourity to intrude into our lives?

Ummm ... the Constitution and over 100 years of common law, as far as I know.

Some people believe that people should be coerced into doing things they wouldn't otherwise do -- ie, voting even if they don't want to -- in order to serve the greater good.

Some people believe that there is no such thing as society per se, and that people should be free to make their own choices and do what they want to do insofar as their freedom is not hurting others. Laws exist to proscribe behaviour -- ie no killing, assault, stealing, etc -- but laws should not exist to PREscribe behaviour.

Best use of youtube ever - you'll have to cut and paste ... sorry ... I'm low tech!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_zulGddP6o


:) xxx

Re: compulsory voting etc. -
"There is no such thing as being non-political. Just by making a decision to stay out of politics you are making the decision to allow others to shape politics and exert power over you" - our good friend Joan Kirner.

In other words, don't be so fucking stupid.

My, this is going to be a laugh, isn't it.

People shouldn't have to vote if they don't want to vote.

But they shouldn't take advantage of anything that any form of government provides for them.

Monkey: Well said, agree completely.

Why should anyone have to vote for candidates they don't support? Perhaps the major parties would take heed of the (lack of) turnout if people were not compelled to vote for one or other of them against their better judgement. The reality is that in the reps at least, only a handful of votes are significant anyway.

"But they shouldn't take advantage of anything that any form of government provides for them."

F'real? Have you considered that the government provides nothing that is not taken from the populace in the first place? I don't think anyone is arguing against taxation but I get the impression that many here like The Last Scientician are out to ensure that they stay in the black when it comes to the taxation welfare equation.

Yup, thank you, Anonymous.

In all the 'don't be fucking stupid' and 'it's only a small imposition' responses in this thread from people who support compulsory voting, it is possible to identify what the whole thing boils down to: some people -- generally on the left -- believe in forcing people to do something if it is for the collective good. But some people prize freedom as a principle and as an actuality more highly.

"Have you considered that the government provides nothing that is not taken from the populace in the first place?"

... the government provides a scale of organisation which individuals would not be able to achieve (or could only achieve via massive private companies who would care even less what we need or want), such as the defence force, the postal service, social welfare, the judiciary, police force ...

so while it may be that "the populace" (what, are you in first-year politics?!) fuels these services, the government is in a unique position to actually provide the services.

My some people are lazy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populace

I find people who refuse to vote and then complain about choices and decisions made on their behalf (i.e., "Don't blame me, I didn't vote'') so fucking contradictory and infuriating.

"Have you considered that the government provides nothing that is not taken from the populace in the first place?"

Yes, Anon, this is indeed true. We have our taxes taken, and the government of the day spends them on what little it thinks it can get away with, while maintaining its power. But this is where we come in, Anon.

I happen to believe that being involved, which includes using your vote, gives you a chance to influence and limit governments.

But if you don't want to vote, perhaps you'd prefer to live in a dictatorship?

Or just whinge and moan without having to get involved and actually try to do something about the problems.

Anon who said: "My some people are lazy".

Maybe I am lazy, but I'd prefer to say "the people" and not come off as a wanker.

"I happen to believe that being involved, which includes using your vote, gives you a chance to influence and limit governments."

Cute theory. Let me know how you get on with that. The reality, as opposed to your breathtakingly naive world view, is that we may as well live under a benevolent dictator for all the influence you and your pissant vote count.

"...and the government of the day spends them on what little it thinks it can get away with, while maintaining its power."

Close, but no cigar. The government makes decisions about expenditure with the primary consideration being retention of power.

You may one day stumble across the means by which real power and influence is exerted, but I doubt it.

The simple fact is that on the issues that matter to some of us there is little to differentiate the two major parties. Both are self serving and only interested in grasping and holding onto power at all costs.

Freedom to not vote for either fucktard is paramount and I fail to see why (mainly) the left seem so hell bent on denying others' freedom.

Is it possible to be a suporter of "as small a government as possible", except for in relation to the "non negotiables: Education, Health, Housing & Environment"?

Education, health and housing tend to be the first areas small governments exclude themselves from in order to, y'know, remain small.

I'm far from an expert, but the only governments I can think of that provide free universal health care, free universal education, supply adequate public housing and have an overriding commitment to the environment are the distinctly big governments of scandinavia and a few northern european nations.

"Freedom to not vote for either fucktard is paramount and I fail to see why (mainly) the left seem so hell bent on denying others' freedom."

DUDE it is NOT a freedom. You are entitled to believe it SHOULD be a freedom, but while it's not, it is not "paramount" and the left isn't "denying" you anything.

"The simple fact is that on the issues that matter to some of us there is little to differentiate the two major parties."

With someone as improbably racist as Howard in power, that is incorrect.

You may one day stumble across the means by which real power and influence is exerted, but I doubt it.

Ah hahaha.
Get your hand off it, dickhead.

Nona said...
'DUDE it is NOT a freedom. You are entitled to believe it SHOULD be a freedom, but while it's not, it is not "paramount" and the left isn't "denying" you anything.'

It is a freedom -- a fundamental freedom -- but it is one denied in every country that forces people by law to show up at a polling booth when they don't want to.

Monkey, aka Anon @16.28. WORD UP.

"It is a freedom -- a fundamental freedom"

Hon - no, it's not. In fact, there is a great deal of debate as to whether there are ANY fundamental freedoms. From where do you believe this freedom arises? The constitution? It makes no reference to rights or freedoms. International law? International law treats only very few (such as freedom from torture) as inalienable rights.

Other rights and freedoms are culturally determined. We actually have no guaranteed freedoms in Australia (we used to have habeas corpus at the very least ... now, not so much).

Members of the NRA believe bearing arms is a fundamental freedom, and they have more of a basis for arguing that because the US constitution does provide for that.

Oh god... they're... f-f-f-forcing me to show up at a polling booth and I don't WANT to....

Fucking hell, can you find anything else to whine about? You're 'forced' to go to a polling booth every three years AND you only earn $150 grand? Maybe you could claim refugee status in Monaco due to economic and political persecution.

Again: it all comes down to whether you believe people should be free, or bossed around by forces made up of those who think they know 'what is best for the people'.

Yes, thanks Monkey, I understand your point. The issue of whether voting should be an option is worthy of debate, but that's not what I am taking issue with. It's anon's confusing "a freedom" with something he believes ought to be a freedom. He has incorrectly said that "the left" is trampling on his rights in making him vote.

Additionally, he is overlooking the fact that it is not voting that is compulsory, but the turning up to the polling booth or paying a fine.

Also, as someone else said, "compulsory voting" makes voting easier for everyone. Our access to the vote is safeguarded. There is a reasonable argument that this makes us more "free".

So, you may have thought that your little insight would have cleared up the debate, but it's just not that simple.

Like I said, this will be fun.

I'd like to know what "in the black when it comes to the taxation welfare equation" means, exactly. Because you've lost me there.

I'd be interested to know what all you non-voting revolutionaries are plotting, because it sure sounds interesting.

Did it ever occur to you that not voting enables governments to enforce their will on others less capable and mobile in our society? It's a pretty wafer thin cop out to my mind.

And elections are not about what's good for the individual. I sure as fuck don't cast my vote thinking about my bank balance.

Incidentally, of the nineteen countries with compulsory voting who actually enforce the law, they don't seeem too bad, to me. Certainly no better or worse than the balance of democracies who don't care.

Can I ask a dumb question - if you're against the idea of voting for fucktards or whatever, why did you enrol to vote in the first place...?

I mean, if you're not the electoral roll, you're under no obligation to vote.

Sorry, just a little confused with how it works...

"if you think ~$150k is highly paid you really need to get a little perspective."

here's some perspective: the oft-quoted (by the existing treasurer) 'national average' - and i don't know if they're using mean, mode or median to skew the figures in prosperity's favour - is 50K. so you're on 3 x the national average. i don't really care how you 'earn' it - that's enough to take care of any human being's needs many, many times over.

it's you who need some 'perspective', pissant.

I guess it depends on what makes you happy. I had lunch at Di Stasio with my wife today. Include babysitter, food, wine, parking... Oh, and I picked up a gram of coke on my way back to work. There's $500 in an afternoon.

I guess $50k would be possible if you were content to be average and merely fulfill "needs". Sounds like a miserable existence to me but if mediocrity floats your boat who am I to argue.

Always nice to get a visit from the Capitalism Fairy.

" guess it depends on what makes you happy. I had lunch at Di Stasio with my wife today. Include babysitter, food, wine, parking... Oh, and I picked up a gram of coke on my way back to work. There's $500 in an afternoon."

big fucking deal? you own a Good Food Guide? odd that you would name-check Di Stasio while stroking yourself anyway, as there are plenty of pricier and equal quality Italian restaurants in Melbourne - and why were you having the pov lunch special? was it so you could squeeze the gram into the budget? - wow. how decadent of you! especially as you're clearly not in need of any additional solipsistic wanker powder.

I have to agree with anonymous....$150,000 isn't a lot of money to have to try and eke out an existence...What with the cost of good staff to run ones kitchen, keeping a butler and a chauffeur, not to mention the rising price of essentials like caviar and venison. Goodness do you people have any idea how much the annual inspection on my Gulfstream V cost me last week. I do pity you trying to live on such a small amount of money. I know, I know come the revolution you'll rise up with the throngs who earn less than you and put us real capitalists to the wall and despatch us with your cheap shotguns. But as my life blood drains out I'll still smile because I know I'm superior to you simply because I earn more than you..Thats your logic isnt it...More money = more happiness....Bugger real values like compassion for your fellow human.
You have the capacity to earn $150,00..well done..take a bow and feel grateful that you have that ability, but don't look down on those who maybe aren't quite as talented, maybe haven't had some of the chances you have had or maybe, just maybe, value things in this world other than money.
And before you accuse me of being mediocre I actually earn way above the Aussie average to..You would never know it to look at me and I sure as hell don't lord it over those who haven't had some of the opportunities that I've had...And no I don't vote Liberal!

If youre paying $60k in tax on $150k, get yourself a better accountant.

Or complete your own tax online, it will save you $30k to spend on coke.

Or youre full of shit.

PATRICK BATEMAN ALERT

Wow.

I seem to have misjudged the landscape. I thought blogs, and especially this one, were just vehicles for half arsed writers and their hangers on (myself included, I admit).

Some of you seem to have taken me seriously when I was just indulging in self aggrandising hyperbole for literary effect. I'm really sorry if I've mislead but we are all artistes here are we not?

I have to say that I seem to have managed to elicit a lot of hate from all of you with boundless compassion for your fellow man.

Hey. I'm just a struggling (and admittedly beta) satirist. I work in a cafe earning $15 per hour. You really should give me a break.

Peace Out, mmkay....

Edit: SEAN BATEMAN ALERT

No, you haven't misjudged the landscape. You've misjudged your abilities as a satirist.

Marmalade made a good funny.

anon(s) - if you're going to be nasty or arrogant, OWN it or it's worthless.

fits - we were wondering when you were going to get the opportunity to check your election meter. 12 days out - let's hope the result divinations are just as accurate!

Oh, Anon :

"Cute theory. Let me know how you get on with that. The reality, as opposed to your breathtakingly naive world view, is that we may as well live under a benevolent dictator for all the influence you and your pissant vote count."

But it's pissants like you who decline to get involved that allow "benevolent dictators" to continue un-checked.

Are you really saying people have never changed unpopular government decisions by getting involved? Ever heard of the Franklin Dam?

All I'm saying is that since we live in a democracy, and people have democratic power, better to use it and actually fight for what you believe in than sit around complaining about things and calling other people names. How old are we, for fuck's?

Funny how the writers who get nasty and personal are always the ones hiding behind anonymity. Then they come over all hurt and misunderstood when their ideas are questioned.

Mmkay, that's me done.

Brave freedom fighters of the I Can't Be Arsed Stationary Front, try to think of compulsory voting as a fairly benign form of mutual obligation theory. If you enjoy a society based on personal freedoms then it's not too much to ask that you be obliged to spend 40 minutes every 3 or 4 years to participate in the processes that, in part, enable you to enjoy those freedoms. A protest about the quality of choices in the process is writing "you all suck" on the ballot paper; not showing up is merely acquiescence to what (you assume) you will get.

As Bianca pointed out, it's those who acquiesce who tend to squeal the loudest when their property/business/farm gets appropriated by a benign dictator (though not necessarily "their" benign dictator).

Bianca:

Certainly people have changed government decisions by getting involved. Props. The fact that you mention the Franklin just highlights the apathy towards the current ongoing destruction of the environment. I made the point earlier that biodiversity which is to me key, seems to be just too difficult for "the people" to engage with.

Perhaps you have also heard of The Dismissal? The pale response to the sacking of a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government was breathtaking. Fact is that Australians kid themselves that they are wary of or mistrusting of authority. There is a long heritage of apathy and complacency and taking the piss out of Brit officers during the "nation building" WWI doesn't really count as any significant challenge to authority. I guess the problem is that we have had it too good for too long. And I guess what dismays me is that there are much bigger issues than who'll make it easier to get that big plasma tv or pay the mortgage. Issues like racism, the invasion of Iraq, the treatment of Hicks and, risking sounding like a broken record, the environment. My poorly made point was that it matters little to me personally which of the two major parties get in. I despise Howard and his posse of evil cronies but I can't fathom any enthusiasm for the slimey Kev "me too" Rudd.

So, yeah, ok, The Greens are worthy of my support in the senate but "You all suck!" will be my response to the choices presented for the reps.

I guess I am embittered and have lost a lot of faith in the people of Australia. Successive endorsements of the Howard government over 13 years will do that to you. Problem is Rudd and the ALP is no panacea and in fact all evidence points to them having their heads as firmly up their arses as the Libs. Insipid and ineffectual versus offensive.

Just one thing Bianca. Perhaps you can explain to me how "Anonymous" is any more anonymous than "Bianca"?

I don't believe in 'mutual obligations' or 'little chores we all must do'. If I don't want to turn up at the polling booth, I shouldn't bloody have to.

Kerry Nettle wore a t-shirt aimed at Abbott and other pro-lifers with the slogan, 'get your rosaries off my ovaries'.

Well, I say, get your laws off of my life!

Fucking government, let me be!

Bianca (the different one). Would you like to join me in a beautiful isolated place (with good Internet connectivity)? We can stockpile supplies and automatic weapons and breed up an anti government militia.

I'm only half joking. Left or right, get your fucking tentacles out of my life! I do know better than you what is right for me and I apply it without doing harm to others. Get lost for fuck sake!

Hmm, big tentacles making you write numbers (or abuse) on a piece of paper.

"Help! Help! I'm being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!"

Get a sense of proportion for fuck's sake!

epon_anono obviously knows what's good for people. You should be running the country, epon-anono. Without having been democratically elected, because you already know what's good for us. No, wait! You should come to power after everyone in the country has been forced to turn up and tick your (fake screen) name on the ballot paper (or just draw a picture of a kitten playing with a ball of string on the ballot paper becaue actually voting is truly a choice). It's a choice! A tiny choice! It's an imposition, but it's a GOOD imposition! We clearly don't know what is what or what is best for us, so please, epon_anono: guide us!

Telco, Bianca (the other one) and Anon, do you all oppose compulsory immunisation, too?

In terms of the balance between freedom and public good, it's pretty much the same.

Let me know - I'm curious.

So wait, our friend the violently-oppressed-by-an-overpaying-company-and-a-compulsory-voting-system Anon doesn't seem to be the same Anon as the Anon who said the thing about DiStasio's and the coke (which was a reasonably funny joke, I thought). DiStasio's coke Anon can't be non-voting Anon because if he's only getting paid $15 an hour he'd have to work 27 hours a day, 7 days a week in order to earn $150,000.

Clearly VOBAOCAACVS-Anon and Bianca(ADOTITPMA) would make a lovely couple, and should by all means find that beautiful isolated place from which to retreat from the common democratic folk. No-one will be able to fence them in with pencils and menacing cardboard polling stations THERE!

Telco, I'd didn't say voting was good for you I said it was good for the system that supports your ability, nay your right, to make facile arguments.

Maybe you should try stamping your feet and saying "I won't! I won't vote and you can't make me". Then you can run to your room & slam the door.

I am not enroled and do not vote. Too hung over and adverse to all things municipal during the voting window, especially churches. Even Socrates hated democracy. Hitler was voted in. By the way, Howard is doing it again. He is positioned nicely for the well timed backlash against the current backlash. The small target, policy void, underdog double backlash plan. Why hasn't any one said Stalin yet? I said Hitler. What does this have to do with Castro?

There isn't much of a fine for not showing up to the poll. Seriously, it won't make a dent in your savings, and indeed, the couple of times I've neglected to vote in council elections (I can never choose between the real estate agents as to who will be best at getting the rubbish collected on time) I have avoided the fine altogether.

But try not paying your taxes, you rebellious scamps. Try just not giving your apportioned percentage to the government and see what happens to your inflated sense of civil disobedience.

People have gone to war over not having the right to vote. People have died for the principle of representation in government. But, hey, most of that was a long time ago in other countries. Don't let it worry you. Just go back to your comfortable lives of isolated ignorance and pretend that you don't make a difference.

Or do something else. I'm sure the energy you expend defending your non-voting position could be easily applied to doing something positive in the world instead.