Reasons you will hate me

*smugly*

This is the logical conclusion of the concept. HAR!

Almost 30 and it's only just now I know what a 'turkey-slap' is.

I'm so sheltered/not a bogan.

1)"I don't give two parts of a flying fuck if Camilla 'entered the compound with sex toys and stories of multiple partners'. If you don't want to be held down with a nob in your face, you don't want to be held down with a nob in your face. End of story."
A reason I don't hate you. That's all that needs to be said about this manifestation of crapulous "reality" junk which continues to consume inordinate amounts of television resources that would be better spent on, say, Australian drama.
2) "I am still watching."
Not a reason I don't hate you.

The thing that pisses me off most is knowing that Channel Ten are reacting like this because of the Trish Draper bru ha ha, not because what happened was a completely vile reflection of a general attitude in our society that turkeyslapping is 'just taking the piss'. They didn't kick Michael out last year for doing the same thing to Gianna. It also pissed me off that Krystal kept hoping that the whole thing might be a joke, and she actually said 'They were just mucking around'. I wonder how she'd like it if they held her down and wacked her in the face with their cocks. It seems that they think that sort of behaviour is acceptable with Camilla because she's 'just one of the guys'. They've all admitted they're not sexually attracted to her, so they don't actually need to treat her like anything other than a lump of rubbish. She'd also feel compelled to go with the whole 'they were being playful' line because we all know that creating a ruckus about unwanted male attention makes the girl a prude who 'can't take a joke'. I can take a joke, I just don't want to slapped in the face with one.

I was also disgusted with the statement Channel Ten had Gretel say. Basically, they excused the whole thing as a foolish mistake probably to cover their backs that they don't actually select housemates with any kind of moral fibre.

Does it even matter what her reaction was? I didn't think the Law in Australia was dependent on someone "pressing charges". If it is a criminal offence, it should be prosecuted, regardless of her attitude.

But this doesn't really surprise me. Sadly.

She should have bitten off the turkey's head! Now that would be news.
Putting it in perspective, far worse things than this happen everyday, it's only when the public actually see it do people start getting upset (out of sight, out of mind). I'm surprised something like this (or worse) hasn't happened on BB before. Put a camera in the rooms of a year 10 school camp and this incident would seem very "boring" in comparison ..(hmmmm, "BB07-Yr. 10 School Camp Uncut"..... I knew I should have been a TV producer!)

You know what I find really intriguing about this situation? Well, two things in the main:

1 Every housemate is watched constantly, from many cameras and presumably by at least several ‘producers’ of the show. One wonders whether there is also some from Ten’s legal team on hand at any time, and a social psychologist. I make this observation because a show that bases its premise on creating an ersatz social environment, the main constant of which is boredom, fills it with young, impressionable, dim and extroverted people, and then treats them like wheel-mice would REALLY need to have all it’s ducks in a row from a legal / potential litigation perspective, don’t you think?

My point, and I do have one, is that Big Brother would have known before hand what Ashley and John were planning on doing. He would have (a) heard them discussing the plan, (b) seen them call her over to the bed.

In this very jumpy world of ‘preventative protection’ shouldn’t Big Brother have made some attempt to stop the incident before it took place? They have microphones, Ninjas and sirens - something could have been done.
I wish to call Big Brother to the witness stand, Your Honour…

Secondly, John and Ashley’s chose to importune themselves with Camilla. As an amateur people watcher, and BB devotee (well, this season anyway) I find this really interesting, and for my money, the smoking gun. They did not do this with Perry (god, could you imagine? She would have castrated them at once) or Claire (who everyone agrees is good and decent and kind and great chick who everyone wants to marry one day and bring home to mum) or Kristal (nah - can't do that to a mate, that's the bloke's moral code). They did it with Camilla, who has admitted that she confuses sex with love, looks for attention and affection through meaningless sexual involvement which she apparently later regrets, and wishes she could have more confidence as a woman, not a sexual object (my words, not hers, but my reading of her over 10 weeks of watching this damn show).

Ever watched drunk boys behaving badly at a pub or party? The never pick on the hot girl, or the one they want to bring home to mum. They pick on the most vulnerable one. The one that hopes that if she allows herself to be fucked on the bonnet of his ute, he’ll be her boyfriend.

Sadly, I think Camilla is too traumatized by the social implications of the current situation ("oh no, everyone in the house hates me"), and lacks the life experience to recognize that John and Ashley chose her because they view her as an expendable girl. A vagina on legs, an object of derision and a nobody. Not someone with any feminine, authoritive, or sexual merit - just a poor tramp to slap my cock on.

Silly girl. Repugnant Boys.

Compelling television but.

hear hear Ms Fits (and also Tashapalooza).

I have been cross about this all day: I don't care what kind of low-rent hi-jinks you sign up for when entering the house, to the best of my knowledge there isn't a tacit agreement to sexual assault as "part of the game".

The fact that Ashley and John now get a free kick outside the house to explain their behaviour when Camilla is left alone:

a) blaming HERSELF for them being kicked out of the house;
b) isolated and alone, even before this incident occurred;
c) unable to make an informed decision about how to proceed because of isolation, fear and, let's face it, financial incentive (presumably she can't file an official complaint without leaving the house herself);

is pretty rank.

Based on some of the comments I've read at other sites, it's only a matter of time before Camilla gets the boot for "being a tease".

I'm not a prude: if people want to have sex on national television that is their choice I suppose. But for those who DON'T want to, the house should be a safe place to be: surely with all those bloody cameras and microphones it's not too much to ask.

And the thing that really shits me about BB is that this story will barely rate a mention on tonight's news.
Ignorance is bliss eh?

I teach Media and all three of my Year 11 classes were talking about this. If they didn't know what a turkey-slap was before they certainly know now. I tried your link and it has - not surprisingly - been removed. But some of the students had already seen it.

Whilst I certainly don't condone this sort of behaviour, I think it is ten (no pun intended) times worse that this sort of behvaviour allowed to be even taklked about on a show that is aimed at such a young age group.

I also agree with many of the other comments here.

A few fun facts...

Big Brother was watched by an additional 150,000 people this week compared to the week before.

80,000 of those additional people were in the much coveted 16-24 age bracket.


I am sure that Channel 10 are crying into their beers right now.

Crikey Andrew - get some perspective. It's "10 times worse" for 16 year olds to be talking about assault than the actual fact of the assault itself?? I think not. And though we may collectively pine for more innocent days, let's wise up and accept that the knowingness of teenagers is, as it has always been, more than the preceding generation thinks.

sorry to jump off topic with brokenleg (thankyou for the link, bl), but fuck - it gets worser and worser...

I just saw a clip of Camilla crying and apologising to the other housemates when BB told them Ashley and John were kicked out over "last night's incident". It was horrible/ sad/wrong to see her so upset- like it was her fault. She needs help.

Not for one moment do I excuse the incidents in question.

But the protests against big brother have been going on for a long time. I would contend that anti-Big Brother arguments equate to shooting the messenger.

Leaving aside the question of Sunday's events, Big Brother seems to reflect pretty accurately (with some bias toward stupidity/extroversion) the dominant and well celebrated Australian macho/bogan culture (which after all tends rather to celebrate many dim-witted extroverts).

It seems rather ironic that when this is portrayed honestly on screen people are suddenly up in arms about it. And even more remarkable that people would be concerned about sheltering teenagers from this kind of stuff. The discussions, language and hijinx represented on Big Brother represent fairly precisely (in fact rather tamely) the world that all teenagers find themselves in, and that all pre-pubescents will be entering before long - for better or for worse. Anyone who fails to understand this can only be well out of touch with modern Australian culture. Big brother could hardly be held accussed of normalising behaviour or attitudes that are already normal - again, for better or for worse (you have to wonder whether the kind of incident wittnessed on Sunday was not far more 'normal' than we might like to believe).

A lot of what big brother represents may be less than pretty. And it may make many people feel rather uncomforable. But it does generate debate, and it does hold up (something of) a mirror, and it does force questions. And, without being much of a fan, for that, I would argue, we may all be better off.

i was just going to say something but that last anonymous did it better so: what s/he said.

i would like to add, that the ridiculous amount of media heat surrounding this incident will prove around 1,000,000 times more traumatic for camilla than any turkey-slapping ever could (unless it was a turkey-slapping by say, alexander downer).

Indeed may we say that this could be the 'turkey slap heard 'round the world'?

Big Brother is an absolute fucking cesspool of a show. It is truly disgusting that is marketed so heavily to children. I have to add that I am far from a reactionary cuntservative, but I can't find one redeeming factor about this piece of shit, not even the trainwreck cringe factor. It sends a message to young impressionable minds that if you're a female you should be a frizzy, twittering fuckwit who is willing to show her tits (not that showing of tits is per se bad, but it's the cajoling nature of it that is so disgusting), and if male a blokesy, Strined-up dickhead as long as you have a square jaw and a fauxhawk. It's like a P&O cruise a la the Diane Brimble inquest.

The only way to end it is this: tell all the housecunts to assemble out in the open area, dispatch an F-111 from Amberley and drop napalm on them. Then, maybe then, I'd get a laugh.

There's only one thing I hate more than Big Brother, and that's fucking weekend newspaper commentary about its social significance. And yes, fuckers, I do appreciate the irony of screeding on it and complaining about punditry at the same time.

I can't believe it, but I'm with John Winston Howard on this one. Get this horrible shit off air.

My Dog Sens Me... said:

"It sends a message to young impressionable minds that if you're a female you should be a frizzy, twittering fuckwit who is willing to show her tits (not that showing of tits is per se bad, but it's the cajoling nature of it that is so disgusting), and if male a blokesy, Strined-up dickhead as long as you have a square jaw and a fauxhawk."

Again, this my be lamentable - but isn't this simply what most teens and twenty somethings (if not the bulk of society) believe and are like anyway? From my experience of life, this seems more or less to be the way of the world, representing the dominant set of social messages that the majority of people receive from day one.

These messages may come across especially bluntly on big brother, but they are nonetheless ubiquitious - in the home, in the playground, the workplace, in advertising - everywhere (except perhaps within the halls of academia and among the so-called cultural 'elites' - including the types of people that might read a blog like this one).

Again, this my be lamentable - but isn't this simply what most teens and twenty somethings (if not the bulk of society) believe and are like anyway?

To a certain extent, yes.

However, when it is presented by a suitably fit for suburban consumption fuckwit like Gretel Killeen, the delivery is sugar coated enough to be insidiously stealthy. Other "naughty" culture stays in its domain, but Big Brother has a bifurcated nature: all family fun when Witchy-Poo is helming it (I HATE HER, SWEET CHRIST I HATE HER), but with the promise of tits and rutting always bubbling beneath the surface.

Once again, I realise I might be coming across like a moralising wowser, but it's just the manipulation that I hate so much. The show's raison d'etre is so fucking obvious, but it has this facade of normalcy. That is what I think does the damage: when it's some micro-skirted chick in a pop video it is a different dynamic altogether. There's no subterfuge. Everything is in its place. Big Brother is Janus-faced, and I honestly think it is the worst thing I have seen in mass culture with regards to fucking up children's perceptions of acceptable behaviour. Once again, it's the hiding behind that blonde cunt's skirts that is the worst aspect of it.

Fits,
I disagree about Big Brother - I thought his behaviour was worse than Killeen's. He told Camilla to consider the impact on the boys of discussing the incident. She should feel free to discuss it in whatever way she wants and Big Brother and the housemates should be entirely supportive.
Tonight's 9:40 special with John and Ash was equally disgusting.
Here's a tip for Killeen, Big Brother, John, Ash and passing internet morons. Reassuring anyone you won't rub your dick in their face then abusing their trust and doing it anyway while your mate holds them down IS NEVER A PRACTICAL JOKE AND IS NEVER OK.

Well said Tash.

I feel for Camilla, her loyalty to those she has come to regard as good friends conflicts with the fact that she clearly feels she has been violated.

This isn't an uncommon sentiment for women who have been assaulted in this way, escpecially considering that most sexual assaults of this description are committed by assailants close to the victim.

There has to be an upside to this whole debacle and with luck, the young and impressionable teen market will come to realise that violating a womans dignity in a manner similar to this cannot be justified as 'just a bit of fun'.

What does worry me however is the backlash by a small minority who consider Camilla deserving of this abuse because of her real or perceived promiscuity. One can only hope they might learn from the proper bollocking John and Ashley (aka, the two Michaels) will receive.

I don't see John and Ash getting a "proper bollocking" at all. The '9.40pm' special a.k.a. was just the producers (or whoever) brain washing the two brain dead boys (not men) full of rehearsed information about it being a "practical joke". The funny thing is, they'd scheduled it for last night but it appears as though it took John and Ash an extra day to get their lines right. Probably took Gretel that long as well!

So much to rant about, but it's all already been said. It's such a shame that the majority of young australian society will perceive what they did as ok because the TV said it was OK. I'd rather see the youth (of which I am a member) playing video games 24-7!

I bow out to Tashapalooza and my dog sends me...

I feel really sorry for Camilla. What actually happened will fade in comparison to the public scrutiny she will receive. No matter what she says she will either be labelled a floozy for saying it was a joke or she'll be pressured to be some sort of pin-up girl for women against sexual assault and forced to repeatedly condemn something she'd just like to forget. Now there's nothing wrong with being either of those things, but she hasn't chosen this path, and that's the real damage those silly boys have done.

Now the sword of Damocles hangs over their heads, their fates lying in harsh glare of the court of public opinion. We should R.E.S.P.E.C.T. Camilla's position on the matter and not use her for moralising over. Respect what ever she says and not make things harder for her.

Anyway, we will have all forgotten about this by Friday!...(I hope)

Note lack of involuntary twitching by John during the special.

"crapulous "reality" junk which continues to consume inordinate amounts of television resources that would be better spent on, say, Australian drama."

Yes, but making drama costs in excess of 100k an episode, compared to making BB, where hundreds of thousands of people pay to ring you up mulitple times, and sponsors fall over themselves to be onboard.

The whole world is run by bean counters, and this is just part of the result.

I got emailed a pretty good quality video of the incident today.

It seems like there's a lot of speculation
Here's what I saw:

Camilla was invited over to the guys beds, she was hesitant to get near because she thought that they had farted, or were about to fart.

she was told to lay down and shut her eyes.

She said "Why? You're not going to Turkey slap me are you?
The guy replied "No", and laughed.

She said "You ARE you liars. Let me in" and proceeded to get under the bed covers.

"So?" the guys said laughing
"I'll hurt you if you do," Camilla said, continuing to wriggle into the bed between them. "I'll bite it"

Much laughing and giggling by all three follows whilst one guy holds her across both shoulders, the other gut gets out his little doodle and rubs in on her face whilst she is giggling and wriggling, trying to get away.

When the deed is done and she's released they're all laughing, Camilla stays in the bed between them, sits up and talks to the other people in the room and tells them what happened.

She lays down again and after some more banter appears to grab one of the guys on his bits.

It all seems very much to have been consensual

there are two issues here. the first is the incident, how it happened, the effect on the people involved, matters of whether it was an assault vs a joke in which camilla willingly took part. i've seen the footage; she was a willing participant on the conscious levvel. then there's the level of how much she actually freely took part, vis a vis tashapalooza's comments:

"Ever watched drunk boys behaving badly at a pub or party? The never pick on the hot girl, or the one they want to bring home to mum. They pick on the most vulnerable one. The one that hopes that if she allows herself to be fucked on the bonnet of his ute, he’ll be her boyfriend.

Sadly, I think Camilla is too traumatized by the social implications of the current situation ("oh no, everyone in the house hates me"), and lacks the life experience to recognize that John and Ashley chose her because they view her as an expendable girl. A vagina on legs, an object of derision and a nobody. Not someone with any feminine, authoritive, or sexual merit - just a poor tramp to slap my cock on."

the second side of it is the argument whether this sort of thing, and other stuff that bb shows to the public as a tv program, should be on tv or not. i agree with my dog sends me; it's utter trash, there's nothing to recommend it etc etc. each series became worse, with the last one the most unwatchable in my opinion. the simple presence of poles in the house were enough to make me turn off and make sure none on the children in my care watch it.

BUT my point is, i turn it off. while i have watched some of the daily shows, i don't watch it as a rule; i'm not following it. i supervise my children so they don't watch it. there is choice when it comes to what you expose yourself to, and what you allow minors in your care to see.

what i do care about with big brother are some of the fundamental gender issues that tashapalooza mentioned, which are significant in society: how men and women treat each other, especially impressionable younger people. i worry for teenagers who watch this stuff and think it's ok to behave like this. because it's not.